Episode 65: Transcript

"A collective exhale"

Magd Pecsenye Zarin: So this is a very special episode of the When The Flames Go Up podcast.

Doug French: You've already ruined it.

Magda: I've already ruined it? Well, we were talking about very special episodes. It is our Christmas episode and our Hanukkah episode at the same time.

Doug: I love that, yes.

Magda: And who's here? Who's our guest today?

Doug: Our guest is a kid we are really very happy is still alive, Robert French.

Robert French: Hi. I can confirm: Still alive.

Magda: Some of you listeners know and some of you listeners maybe don't know that last week Robert had a really horrible rollover accident in South Dakota on I-90 in which he hit a patch of ice and his truck rolled over. Do you know how many times?

Robert: My recollection is a little spotty. All I remember is in real time, just thinking, you know, like I'm skidding a little bit. Oh, that's not good. Oh, that's really not good. And then I'm rolling over. Oh, that's definitely not good. And then just sort of coming to in the ditch being like, well, I don't know what just happened. All I know is it is very double plus un-good.

Magda: Yeah, so he rolled over at least once, possibly more times, and his truck is destroyed.

Doug: Not just his truck, but his life was in that truck.

Magda: Yeah, he had been moving back from Washington State, and everything you owned was in the truck.

Robert: And fortunately, a lot of that was... pretty durable, like clothes and books and stuff. But I mean, I also had a container of transmission fluid because ATF is like, you know, $35 a jug. And I'm like, well, I'll just keep this around. And then it blew up and ruined some of my stuff. I had some stuff that I'd welded together years ago that smashed. I had this really nice truck topper that my girlfriend had painted and that I'd done a whole bunch of fixtures for and that thing is just smashed in bits. And it was it was difficult, but you know, I got away with, I bet, I guess, three cuts on my hand, so.

Doug: Well, thank God for a 42-year-old truck chassis. And more than one person among the texts that I received was like, “How ironic is this that he spends his time fighting fires, making a dangerous living in that respect, and it's the ride home that almost killed him?”.

Robert: Well, I mean, it's the thing that driving the engine is the most dangerous part of being a firefighter. Oftentimes, you know, people have been working 24, 36, 48-hour shifts and they're driving home and they're just exhausted and they wreck on the way home. Or, on the Carlton Complex Fire in Okanogan County back in 2015, there were four fatalities and all of them were in one engine. They were driving down a dirt road and it was smoky and so visibility was low, and they ended up sailing into a ravine and all four of them died. They didn't die of smoke inhalation. They didn't burn.

Doug: So how did you come to know that? Was that part of your training?

Robert: It was part of the training, but also we have something called Six Minutes For Safety, where at the start of every day, we all gather around the radio and they read out the weather report. And then they also, they basically just discuss a safety topic. And sometimes the safety topic is very complex, like talking about topography and how that affects the rate of spread of a fire. And sometimes it's something very simple, like, you know, don't play with chainsaws. [Magda and Doug laugh] Yeah.

Doug: Well, now you've set the tone for our very special episode, which is releasing on Christmas Day, in part because why not? Also in part because it's the same day as the start of Hanukkah, which hasn't happened in 20 years. And we bring along the kid who's still with us because he almost left us.

Robert: I got enough juice in me to last eight days longer than I should.

Magda: There you go. So, Doug, when you and I talked about putting together this episode, we didn't think that Robert was going to want to be part of it. But what we did want to talk about was this idea of parenting adult kids, which a lot of us in this age group are. There's not a whole lot of day-to-day parenting we do of Robert anymore, especially when he's like a 30-hour drive away. But then when he wrecked, he called us and we had to spring into action in some ways.

Magda: The really weird thing about this is that including leap year days, leap days, this happened exactly six years to the day from the accident that he was in when he was in high school that gave him a huge concussion. And when he was in high school, you and I had to take care of everything, like the logistical stuff, getting him medical care and letting his school know.

Doug: Getting his finals deferred and getting those beads that he had to look at to recenter his pupils.

Magda: Yeah, he did vision therapy. Because a very common thing that happens when you get a concussion is you get convergence insufficiency in your eyes, which means your two eyes don't work together anymore. And you can do vision therapy to correct that.

Magda: But yeah, this time it was very different. It was obviously less immediate for me because I didn't drive out to where he was, but also just he's an adult now and he's got to take care of a lot of this stuff on his own.

Robert: I secured my own transportation to Minnesota and I secured my own place to stay for the night in town. And I even listened to the tow truck driver insist that I should join the Marines and then go work in the oil fields.

Magda: That to me is nuts. That the tow truck driver of your wrecked vehicle decided that to fix your life, you should go into the military.

Robert: Well, and I told him that I like to do fire because I like to work all summer and then just sit around for the winter. It's nice to just sort of have a rhythm to your life like that. And he was like, “that's a really dangerous mentality to have, kid. The Marines will make you a man.” I mean, sure, bud, if that's what you think. I wasn't about to countermand him because I wasn't really in a position to die on hills.

Doug: I think tow truck drivers are by definition a very interesting breed.

Robert: Well, he told me that he just retired from the police force after 25 years. Which I have no idea what goes on in like the life of a small town sheriff's deputy. Because I'd imagine he's seen like six really amazing things and like thousands and thousands of really simple and boring things.

Doug: I've told you the story about when my station wagon died on the way home from college and I had to get a flatbed tow. I mean, I could have stayed over and had them replace the alternator and then I could have gotten in the car and driven home, but I had everything in the back of that car.

Robert: You can replace an alternator with a screwdriver.

Doug: Well, I didn't know that. And you're the one who's packed more life into 22 years than I have into 60.

Magda: There was no YouTube for you to look up “Replace alternator with screwdriver” and then look at the top six video instructions.

Robert: I'm going to tell you guys right now. In your engine, if you still have a gas-powered engine, I know many of you don't, but if you lift up the hood, there's the shaft in the front that's attached to a fan. One of those belts is going to be coming off to the left and spinning around a metal item that kind of looks like a fan. That's your alternator. Go to Harbor Freight, buy a socket set for $17. A new alternator will cost you some money, but like $80. You just undo them, stick them back in place. Nothing to it. Take you less than an hour.

Doug: Wow. Well, in my defense, the ‘80s were stupid.

Robert: The ‘80s were profoundly stupid. In many respects, all of US history since the ‘80s has just been a bad hangover from that party.

Doug: Well, we're living it for sure.

Robert: Yeah, we're living it.

Doug: But anyway, the interesting thing was I also spent a couple hours in the cab of a tow truck. And we also had interesting discussions about what makes a man, chatting about life and the Marines. And those are stories, right? I mean, granted, once you get past whatever crisis brought you to them, it's a great opportunity to meet people who have very different viewpoints and backgrounds than yourself.

Magda: This makes me wonder if tow truck drivers are especially focused or obsessed on the question of “what makes a man.” I had a tow truck conversation and he started asking me questions about why my husband wasn't doing this and all that kind of stuff. And I said, I'm not married. And he said, “you need a man.” And I said, “I have a man. I paid AAA $100 a year and I called and you came and now you're towing my truck for me. What else do I need from a man? For $100, I've gotten everything I need.” So I wonder if tow truck drivers are especially focused on this question of what makes a man, how to become a man, who needs a man, all of that.

Doug: Well, that's a short story right there. The life and times of a tow truck driver.

Robert: Well, and another time I got a tow because when I was working at the Conservation Corps, we were driving on this muddy road during the spring thaw. And I mean it's all just clay, and we were driving an suv with a big trailer full of chainsaws and stuff. And so the road just buckled and we slid down the slope. And I mean nobody was injured, but it was still we needed a tow. And when we explained to the tow truck driver what we were doing there, I said we were cutting down tamarisk trees because they alkalinize the soil and make it impossible for other things to grow there. And then he turns to everyone else and he's like, “oh, someone's got a master's degree.” I guess when you're a tow truck driver, your job is so, so much about practicality and there's basically nothing conceptual to it at all. You just got to get the vehicle to a location and you have to use the heavy equipment to get it there. And it's definitely a skill. I mean, the average person off the street couldn't operate a tow truck successfully. There's a lot to it, and there's also some physics to it, but I guarantee you that nobody who drives a tow truck professionally has a degree in physics. They just have an intuitive understanding of physics after years of practice.

Doug: Right, but it's dangerous, and you're always finding someone in some level of crisis.

Magda: Yeah, it's not like being a dentist. Dentists see people when they're in crisis, but dentists see a lot more people when they're just in there for their every-six-month cleaning.

Doug; So anyway, listeners, the reason we didn't have a podcast last week was because of this, because we were trying to make sense of what had just happened half a world away. And we were kind of coy about it on the Friday Flames. But now we can come clean and say, it's been a real shock to the system. You know, the hugs were extra tight when I saw you in Minnesota. And I got to say, this Christmas went from what was going to be kind of an ordinary one into a very extraordinary one that I'll always remember.

Magda: Not for the best reasons, though. You say it like it was a Christmas movie. Like, “I'll always remember that Christmas.” I mean, there was a Christmas my mom had the flu and was lying weakly, sweating and groaning in agony in her room. I will always remember that, but not for good reasons.

Doug: I'm just saying what I'm trying to focus on is what positive elements are going to come from this. Like, for example, I saw a lot more of Robert than I thought I was going to this Christmas season and will later on. I saw your parents, which I wasn't planning to do. It was fun seeing them. And we're going to all be under the same roof at some point when you come back in January.

Magda: : Yes.

Doug: And none of those things would have happened were it not for this. So... I don't know. I guess when you talk about a near miss like this, the best way I can reconcile it or at least, you know, start breathing normally again is to focus on the future about it and not dwell too much about what nearly happened.

Robert: Well, I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I was planning on downsizing a lot when I got back to Michigan. And then a whole bunch of my shit just smashed in pieces for me. So like that ice saved me some work. And then... I was calling around seeing who would come get me. And I figured out pretty quick who my real friends were.

Magda: Yeah.

Robert: And then I ended up single handedly saving his relationship while we were driving home. So.

Magda: So what I had heard, Doug, you said you heard a lot of people saying that he spends his life doing this risky work. And then it was the drive home that got him. I've heard a lot of people saying “it's ironic that he fights fires, and then it was ice that took him out.”

Robert: Oh, like... Yeah.

Doug: George R.R. Martin should be writing something about that. You were fighting Heat Miser, and then Cold Miser almost took you out.

Robert: Right, exactly.

Doug: Well, I always preferred Cold Miser to Heat Miser, if we're being honest, but... Both of them are kind of rubbish. Did you have strong opinions about them?

Robert: I mean, strong opinion, no. It's like the difference between, you know, Saudi Arabia and Iran. It's like, yeah, on balance, I guess I prefer one of them. But at the end of the day, they both suck.

Doug: I gotta say, I always preferred Cold Miser, too. I thought Cold Miser was funny. You know, Heat Miser was just a schmuck.

Robert: He definitely had a better sense of humor.

Magda: He seemed more open to life experiences. Whereas the Heat Miser just was, I mean, I hate to say it, but he was kind of inflammatory. They matched.

Doug: All right. That's all the time we have. Thank you so much. He was just a jerk for jerk's sake. I never cared for him, but anyway.

Robert: Well, and I always found the animation of that thing terrifying to begin with. Like even as a little child, I just remembered, being viscerally uncomfortable through that whole thing. And there's a reason why I blacked it out until fairly recently.

Magda: That style of animation is the uncanny valley. Like it's just so hyper realistic and weird. Like, yeah, I was kind of scared of all those specials as a kid.

Doug: Well, cause you were scared of the abominable snowman. I was scared of the abominable snowman for a while.

Magda: Do you remember when those people in my parents' old neighborhood in Toledo put up a life size–so over six foot tall–Bumble statue in their enclosed porch the day after Thanksgiving 2013? And then they never took it down. They would just decorate it for Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's Day and 4th of July. A friend of mine was looking at houses in that neighborhood a couple months ago. And so we drove past the house and that Bumble is still there. It's been 11 years.

Doug: Probably keeps away solicitors.

Magda: Yeah, I'm guessing it does. I think for me, the essence of this experience was that it was so different from when he had the car accident in high school. And I think I would have had a more difficult time understanding where my boundaries were in the situation if I had been physically in the same place where the accident happened. So I think the fact that I was even further away from him than you are, Doug, necessarily put a limit on my involvement. And I think it's appropriate. It's age-appropriate. Like he is able to find his own place to stay, arrange for a tow truck, all of that kind of stuff. And so I think, you know, now we just wait and see how much insurance will pay out for his 42-year-old truck.

Doug: Even long after we've been married and long after the kids lived under the same roof, it's still in the end, you divide and conquer and you deploy your resources, however you need to. So, yeah.

Robert: Well, and ordinarily I would figure that this would be entirely my responsibility to figure out. And really the complicating factor here was that I was a thousand miles from home with a truck's worth of things that I had to bring home.

Doug: Right, because mass transit wasn't an option.

Robert: Right. I mean, I had suggestions, go take a bus. Well, in Presho, South Dakota, population 480, there are no buses.

Magda: Right.

Doug: Tell me about Presho. How long were you there? You were just there overnight, right?

Robert: Yeah, I got in around 11. The tow truck driver dropped me at the gas station that was just right next to the one motel in town. And I went and got a room and explained the situation to the guy behind the register. And he was really cool. I was missing some things from my truck and he was able to hook me up with it. I couldn't find my contact case and I couldn't find my phone charger. So he hooked me up with one of each and he gave me a ride downtown to the bowling alley so I could get a hot meal and a beer. Then my friend came to pick me up and we went back to said bowling alley and ended up betting 10 bucks on a game of pool with some good old local boys. And it's great because to an extent, you know, I work fire, I drive a truck, so I can just kind of talk about those things and wear my Carhartt and they kind of assume I'm one of them. And then... Eventually, I don't know, I hesitate to say suspicious, but, like, they got, you know, kind of curious. They're like, well, how big was the town that you guys grew up in? [pause] Eight million.

Magda: How did they take it? Did they ask you what city it was?

Robert: Yeah, and I talked to them, and then I talked to them about Detroit, and I was talking about how the auto industry has gone south, literally just moved to Mexico, and they're like, “So Trump ain't lying?” And I was like, “no, Trump ain't lying. Don't hurt me. We're friends here.” But yeah, they were nice guys. Ended up taking us for 10 bucks, but, um, you know, it's whatever.

Doug: You really are living a real life. Like you can talk about the things.

Robert: Yeah, football and hunting season and how hard it is to get a bear tag. I've often thought, Oh my God. I can talk about how a buddy of mine got a bear tag and he's super, super stoked about it and he hasn't used it yet, but he was showing off the .45-70 rifle that he's planning to use to bring down this bear with.

Magda: What's the purpose of hunting a bear?

Robert: The meat is really good.

Magda: Bear meat is really good? I would imagine it would just be super, super gamey and greasy.

Robert: Well, it is, but people will pay top dollar for the meat. And also, you get the skin. But I would never bother with a bear tag, because in most places, you're allowed to shoot a bear in self-defense. Like, if you shoot anything in self-defense, you're supposed to call the game warden and just let it be known. But if the game warden's cool, I mean, it varies by state law, but...for the most part, if it's obvious that you killed the bear in self-defense, there's a decent chance if the game warden's cool, he'll let you take home the meat and the skin and everything.

Magda: Oh God. I mean, it's better than factory farming.

Robert: It is far better than factory farming.

Magda: So much better than factory farming.

Robert: During hunting season, you have to put in for your tags. So usually it's easy to get a deer tag depending on where you live because there's deer everywhere. But a tag is just the right to bring down a specific animal. It's more competitive to get a moose tag because moose are rarer. And it's very competitive to get a bear tag because if they just let anyone shoot bears, then there wouldn't be many bears left. And it's a lottery system. You pay into it. And then, you know, they do a drawing and maybe 100 people across the state get the right to hunt a bear proactively.

Magda: This seems horrible to me.

Robert: Well, if you live in a rural county and the supply chains are super long, food is often really expensive. So it's cheaper to hunt your own food and grow your own food.

Magda: All right. I mean, that's fair enough.

Doug: That's why I loved, like, we spent nine hours in the car talking about all kinds of things. And this was one of them, you know, just what your life was like and how you're kind of using this time of your life to fill it up with all kinds of experiences because you can, you know, that's a great opportunity to have.

Robert: Well, people say, you know, this time of my life, but I don't think I could do anything different. I'd chew through my own leg. Otherwise I'd get so bored.

Magda: Okay. And with that. So, I mean, I just want to say to people, I hope that you have a good Christmas and a good Hanukkah if you observe either or both of those. And it's more difficult than people allow to figure out what the boundaries are for parenting an adult child, especially when there's a crisis or even a perceived crisis. You know, I'm just wishing people courage and strength out there to find the right boundaries.

Doug: I got to say, you know, when you're in your fifties and the holidays come around, it's just a whole different perspective. I mean, granted, I talked to my parents about this a lot and they're in their eighties. My father's about to turn 88 next week. And increasingly for me, every holiday season is about taking stock of the people in your life and being really grateful for the ones who are still around and sparing a thought for the ones who aren't. And, uh, everything's in perspective, really. You know, I see lots of stuff like “Buy this for Christmas.” I'm like, screw off. I don't give a shit about buying stuff for people. All I care about is having people around.

Magda: Okay, Ebenezer Scrooge. This went right into conspiracy theory.

Doug: It went right into the dumper.

Magda: Yeah, it really did.

Robert: Well, it's absolutely true, though, that capitalism degrades the gods of men and makes of them commodities. That's in Das Kapital. Incidentally, my copy of Das Kapital was destroyed in the crash.

Magda: Oh, that's ironic.

Robert: Isn't it?

Magda: Wow.

Robert: It's not a very good book. Don't even bother. I'm just going to level with you. If your idea is to create a mass movement of workers, you can't write like an 800-word book about it with all these terms like “dialectical materialism” and expect the WWE and Keystone Light crowd to give a hot shit.

Doug: Oh, dear. Wow, we didn't come across as too elitist there.

Robert: Merry Christmas. God damn. I had about eight smurf accounts on Reddit that were banned from r/communism over the course of high school. And then I went to college and got banned from the in-person communist club. All I was ever doing was telling them the flaws in their strategy. I didn't disagree with them in principle. I was trying to help them out. But, you know, fortunately, I don't live in a communist country because they just banned me from their Reddit as opposed to, you know, putting me in gulag.

Doug: Well, you know, I guess the main takeaway from this is I'm so happy you're still with us. And thank you for indulging us, everybody, for listening to what ended up being the real episode 65 of the When the Flames Go Up podcast with Magda Pecsenye Zarin and me, Doug French. Our guest has been the icy chill of death.

Robert: “Robert French, the man who took the icy chill of death's lunch money.” He's going to get me in the end, but I'm going to drag this out. I'm going to make him work for it.

Doug: When the Flames Go Up is a production of Halfway Noodles LLC and is available on all the usual platforms and at whentheflamesgoup.substack.com. Please subscribe there for our weekly episode every Wednesday, including this Wednesday, right? We came through and actually published on a Wednesday as usual, although we will not publish next Wednesday. Also, you'll get our newsletter every other Friday, Friday Flames. Thank you for listening. Big hugs all around, deep breaths all around. Thank you to everyone who reached out to us. I don't know. That's another positive aspect to this whole thing is that I talked to many many friends that I would not normally have talked to over the holiday season, and that's a big deal, too. Thanks to everyone for listening, and we'll see you next year. Bye!