Doug French: I've been thinking a lot about this. This feels very different since you moved away.
Magda Pecsenye: It does? In what way?
Doug: Well, it just seems less natural.
Magda: What do you mean, less natural?
Doug: Well, I was adding up all of the factors we have right now, right? You've left town. You are living with someone you're about to marry in a few weeks. I'm still here. You're making a lot of noise on your laptop. Are you stable?
Magda: I might be stable.
Doug: Okay, because I'm hearing lots of... You know, as you're moving around. Yeah, we'll have... that's an extra issue. That's another discussion. Are you stable? But it seems like this is the time for us to be as out of each other's lives as we've ever been.
Magda: Yeah.
Doug: Right? I mean, you have a whole new neighborhood, a whole new life that's about to start. In fact, it probably has started. I mean, the marriage is one thing, but this is essentially what your married life is gonna be like, so that's already happened. And, you know, Robert's out in the woods, and Thomas is gonna be in college, and I'm thinking, this is what divorced couples usually dream of, right? This is the time to be like, you know what? It's been great. Most of the time. You know what I mean?
Magda: Yeah, but I mean… I worry about you.
Doug: You do?
Magda: Yes, I worry about you.
Doug: Why do you worry about me?
Magda: Because you are a person who dwells on things and worries about things too much.
Doug: Well, but I mean, that's not going to change whether you're in my life or not.
Magda: Well, I know, but I mean, I don't know. I just feel like when I was there, I could come over and talk some sense into you sometimes.
Doug: Well, everybody needs that in their life, for sure. You need to have somebody who knows you well enough to call you on your bullshit in life, absolutely.
Magda: Right, and come and talk some sense into you. I mean, not like it ever helps. You never listen to anything I say anyway, but...
Doug: That's not true. That's absolutely not true. Maybe I don't make a big show of saying, thank you for talking sense into me as if everything you say is sensical.
Magda: No, I'm just telling you that when I give you practical advice, you never follow it.
Doug: Give me an example. What practical advice have you given me?
Magda: Oh my God, I've given you 8,000 vitamin and mineral recommendations. I've given you all kinds of recommendations. You still don't even have an instant pot.
Doug: No, I don't need one.
Magda: You wouldn't even have an air fryer if I hadn't snuck mine into your house.
Doug: Well, yeah, and had you taken it with you, I might have invested in one. First of all you can't come at me and say you've given me 8,000 pieces of advice and 7,900 have been about minerals.
Magda: Okay, enzymes. Enzymes and amino acids.
Doug: Alright, can we create a separate group for biological improvements. I mean, I still am interested in more arthritis treatments. I mean, if that means avoiding nightshades, if it means eating more turmeric. And it's working so far. It's working really well, actually.
Magda: Well, I mean, what I would do if I were you is just avoid nightshades for like a month. See how it goes. Right.
Doug: Man, I’d miss tomatoes. It's tomato season. I can't avoid nightshades in tomato season.
Magda: Well, tomato season's over in like a week.
Doug: Ah, but the tomatoes themselves, they're going to be there for weeks to come. I've been existing on tomato sandwiches, which may be a problem, but I love tomato sandwiches. But these are things that old people must confront when the time comes to abandon things they love because it's making them unable to hold things.
Magda: Right.
Doug: Well, I'm coming in hot this morning just because I'm just full of existential discussion topics and you are at death's walkway, so...
Magda: I'm not at death’s door. I just don't, I just don't feel good. I think I got a cold or something like that. I mean, I was away for my friend's birthday weekend. We were in Cape Cod. It was a fantastic time. It was a very small group of us. And we just spent a lot of time talking and we ate a lot of stuff and we drank a lot of stuff. And then we went and explored.
Doug: Speaking of doing things that an older person shouldn't do. Cape Cod and overindulging on Cape Cod.
Magda: Yeah, you know, there was a hurricane and everyone was like, Oh my God, hurricane coming. My future mother-in-law kept sending me emails with the updated weather report every couple hours just to make sure to watch out for my safety. And then it turned out to be...
Doug: That's lovely, I think.
Magda: Oh, yeah, it is lovely. It's absolutely lovely.
Doug: Just like your mom would send me stuff like that if I were in the same situation.
Magda: Right. It didn't turn into a nothingburger. Like it was at one point, it was really kind of delightful. I woke up on Saturday morning and the trees outside the window were whipping around. And the, you know, it was like winds were like 30 miles per hour, you know, enough to be exciting enough that you wouldn't really want to be outside in it yourself.
Doug: But not too bad to think, oh, shit, the power is going out.
Magda: No, not at all. The power went out for about two seconds, actually, and then came right back on.
Doug: That's what's amazing. It's like the new normal around here. Now you're seeing commercials for generators saying, well, you know, when the next power outage comes, you'll be ready to watch the big game.
Like that's now a part of our lives.
Magda: Yeah, exactly. I mean, like instead of having the power company have like billion dollar profits because they never do any repairs. We're all supposed to buy generators. So anyway, I think I came down with something because I didn't drink enough that I should feel like I have an illness.
Doug: You're doing the time but you didn't commit the crime?
Magda: Exactly. And I didn’t drink anything yesterday. I mean, I drank water and Diet Dr. Pepper. And coffee and. The coffee at the rental house was a Keurig, and I am unable to operate the fancy Keurig machines, because it's too many options. And so I ended up with a horribly weak cup of coffee with grounds in the bottom of it the first morning we were there. And so the second morning, I was like, let me just buy that.
Doug: It's like when your eight year old makes coffee for the first time for Father's Day.
Magda: Yes, exactly. That's exactly what it was like. Yeah. But I was the only one of the people there who drank coffee in the morning. Which is like, I don't know, I feel like a dinosaur. I feel like an iceberg in the middle of climate change.
Doug: So everybody else there was off coffee.
Magda: Yeah, or had never been on coffee. So we went into Provincetown. And I had not been to Provincetown or to Cape Cod at all since Steve and Brent got married, like, I don't know, 15 years ago, 14 years ago, that they got married in Provincetown.
Doug: Were they married when I met them? They must have been married when I met them, didn't they?
Magda: No.
Doug: No?
Magda: No, we like to think in our heads that the United States was a better place always, but it was not. They were not legally married. Two of the people that we were with had never been to Provincetown, had never been to Cape Cod. And so we were walking around Provincetown and you know, it's like adorable. It's just like...
Doug: And it's the day after a hurricane, which is usually gorgeous.
Magda: Yes, it was stunningly beautiful. Everybody was happy to be out.
And we're walking around and so we find a coffee shop for me to go in and they had every kind of coffee you could want. Like coffee blended with super oils that will infiltrate your DNA and make you bionic and like mushroom powder of all sorts of different kinds of stuff and all that.
And you know, I'm very into that. I'm not a tech bro, so I do not call it “biohacking.” I'm just somebody's mom, so I call it excessive supplementation. But I'm really trying to figure out, like, what extracted substances I can swallow with my morning coffee that will make me not feel like crap all the time. And so they had this extensive menu, and I just short-circuited, and I ordered a cup of drip coffee with half and half in it from the fancy coffee bar.
Doug: This is the mind that wants me to have the flavor of the week mineral supplement. Can we talk about the nature of the minerals and enzymes and things you choose for me? How frequent they are? How much churn there is?
Magda: Well, that's because I'm looking for the optimal mix. Like I think I actually have found one that is allowing me to sleep through the night, which I think is great. So I think I'm going to stick with this one long term, but the other ones are just rotating in. And I have to say, there are some that I have been taking every day. Like I've been trying to, I mean, God, I hate this word biohack. It's so freaking stupid.
Doug: Why? You're trying to extend your biological life.
Magda: Yeah, well, what I'm trying to do is game my ADHD because Adderall helps, but Adderall only pushes through the focus on the basics, right? Like Adderall doesn't help me organize. It just helps me focus once I am organized and I would like something that helps me organize. So I'm coming up with this concoction of substances that I can ingest.
Doug: Right, but you realize this whole process is a lot like looking for your glasses when you don't have your glasses on.
Magda: Exactly. It's exactly like that. But, you know, given another 20 years, possibly. But I mean, I also think...
Doug: Well, then once you figure it out, and assuming our biology is even closely, you know, analogous, then you can give me the recipe and then maybe I'll try it.
Magda: You don't have ADHD.
Doug: Maybe I do. There's so much talk about ADHD in terms of what the symptoms are. Right.
Magda: I can guarantee that you do not have ADHD. I wouldn't say that you're absolutely neurotypical, but you do not have ADHD-comma-inattentive-type-period.
Doug: But the procrastination part, I think that's part of ADHD.
Magda: Um, I think the procrastination part for you is not necessarily hardwired like it is for people with ADHD. I think the procrastination part has been a feedback loop for you.
Doug: And the distractibility aspect is also, I think, just the nature of the times because there's so many options.
MagdaL It’s the nature of the times, but I also think it’s hormonal. If you look at people who are assigned female at birth and people who are assigned male at birth, we all go through some weird hormonal stuff around, you know, in the 40s and 50s. And I think the fact that perimenopause was only identified as like an actual thing in the 90s, the 90s, the 1990s. It's going to take a while before anybody gets to men.
Doug: Well, yeah, I don't even think that's it's ever going to be a thing. I don't think men are going to take enough interest in their own bodies for that to happen.
Magda: Which is ironic because the medical establishment only takes interest in your bodies.
Doug: Well, only from a reproductive sense.
Magda: Right, but every man I know is like, why aren't you studying women's bodies? Because they're the ones that are having these, you know, life altering issues that could be resolved very easily with a concoction of different hormones and stuff like that, right? But the medical establishment is like, oh, no, no, no, too much trouble to actually design studies for women.
Doug: Well, especially at a time when we're litigating women's bodies more so than ever.
Magda: Right, exactly.
Doug: Maternal mortality rates are rising and doctors have to consult their lawyers before they do any level of reproductive care.
Magda: Well, yeah, I mean, that's kind of ridiculous. But the upshot of that is that things are getting more and more difficult and dangerous for women like OBGYNs are going out of the OB business. And I think some of it's good because there's never been this focus on women except when we were having babies, right? We were just vessels. And so I actually I have two friends from college who were OBGYNs for a long time who have now stopped delivering babies who are going into perimenopause and menopause care, which is great, because that's a third of a woman's life. It's more than that.
Doug: What? And once it starts, I mean, there's the worst symptoms of it, but don't they abate after a while?
Magda: Well, yeah, but you're still in a new phase, like a 70 year old woman's body is not the same as a 30 year old woman's body in terms of what it needs, like the rhythms of it, what's happening there. At a certain point, you just don't need reproductive health care. But you still have your reproductive organs. And those need a different kind of care. You know what I mean? You know, you go through quote, unquote, the change, hey, just go off on this iceberg and float away, right?
Doug: Yeah, but do older women have hot flashes? I mean...
Magda: Yes!
Doug: Really?
Magda: Yes.
Doug: I thought that was something that kind of signaled the change, but then they kind of receded a bit as you get older.
Magda: I've talked to some friends who are in their 60s and 70s who said they still have hot flashes. So the North American Menopause Society, their recommendation now is that you go on hormone treatment as soon as you start having symptoms in perimenopause and that you can stay on it forever if you want to.
Doug: If you want to.
Magda: And I see no reason not to, I will be on it. Like, you guys, when you bury me, you can toss a bottle of estrogen into the coffin for my treatment across the River Styx, right? Like, don't leave me without my estrogen.
Doug: So you think I'm going to bury you? That's very interesting.
Magda: I do not think you'll bury me. I'm going to write this down and tell it to the kids.
Doug: I think I want to be composted. After I pass.
Magda: There's kind of no reason not to. The idea of these hermetically sealed things and with all the embalming fluid is just kind of weird to me.
Doug: Now this is a very important caveat though because you know there are stories where a spouse buries a spouse in the backyard and then a tree grows out of that and they eat apples off the tree that is being composted by their spouse and that I have to draw a line against that.
Please don't eat anything that is, please don't eat my death apples.
Magda: Well, I mean, if I were to bury your plain body in my backyard, people would think it was foul play, right?
Doug: You're going to dump me in the Charles.
Magda: So every time I see a river here, I'm like, oh, that's a pretty river.
What is it? And people are like, “um, the Charles.” Like what?
Doug: The same river over and over again?
Magda: I know. I guess I just never know where I am. I keep thinking I'm someplace else. There's another river, but nope.
Doug: You can't identify the Charles unless there's somebody rowing crew on it, right?
Magda: Right. And then there's another one called the Cochituate, which I had been saying Coquituate, but it's Cochituate.
Doug: But you're becoming a New Englander already, right? You're hanging out on the hook there.
Magda: I know I'm hanging out in Cape Cod.
Doug: Going to P-Town with the ladies. You are becoming a New Englander. Well done.
Magda: Well, yeah, and you know, we're trundling around and I was like, Oh God, 25 years ago, I was like, cool in New York City. And now I'm like, solidly momcore.
Doug: But you lean into that though, right? You really enjoy having Mike's daughter under your wing.
Magda: It's absolutely more fun to be a 50 year old momcore mom.
Doug: Right, and that gets back to the initial question, right? This is your life now. You've got a stepdaughter, you've got a husband-to-be, you've got a whole new place to live. Wasn't this the time when you and I were supposed to say, you know, this was an amazing 20-plus years? You know, the majority of my life, you've had the most impact on my life than anybody else.
Magda: Wait, oh, are you saying that, like, I was moving away, so we were supposed to say, hey, it's been great, but have a nice life?
Doug: No, no, no, I think we were always aiming toward that when the kids were grown, and now they are. We will always be parents together.
Magda: I mean, when we split up, I didn't like you at all. If we hadn't had kids, I never would have spoken another word to you again. And I think you wouldn't have spoken another word to me again. You didn't like me when we split up either.
Doug: Oh, certainly not. Yeah, I would have dropped you like a bad habit, for sure.
Magda: Right, exactly. But I mean, we've, you know, we've come through some stuff again. You, like, we're friends again. So I'm not gonna move away and be like, hey, hey, never wanna talk to you again. That's dumb.
Doug: Right, no, I, yeah, it's not so much that. I guess, I'm trying to articulate it as best I can. It just seems, I mean, I'm grateful for it. But it does seem, given the dynamics of how most divorces end up, most divorced couples, once the kids are grown, are like, thanks, but I got something new to do. Like, are we hoarding each other?
Magda: I don't actually think that's true at all. I have known, now, I've seen some other divorced couples that have, that have just moved into a new phase, kind of, of friendship and sort of feeling like secondary family, if that makes sense. I don't think we're the only ones.
Doug: Yeah, I don't think we're the only ones.There a great line in Fleischman Is In Trouble…
Magda: Which I should clearly read.
Doug: Oh, you have to read it.
Magda: Yeah, when I saw you, I mean, you know, you and I are in the same book club group. And I saw you asking if you should read the book or see the movie first, and I was like, oh crap, I guess this means I need to read it too.
Doug: And some said read the book and some said see the movie, so zero help. And then the gods at Kindle said, look, it's $1.99, so go read it.
But the line is, you know, divorcing doesn't make you any less parents.
Magda: No, it's true. It's absolutely true.
Doug: Because it's a novel about divorce. And it's about but it has, it launches into a bunch of existential crises about who we are as people.
It reminded me a lot of that show I told you about, The Affair. Which is based upon alternate points of view of the same event. Right. And how we just create our own narratives based upon our own flaws and our own blind spots. I mean, it's fascinating. Interesting. There's just so much wrapped up in there. And it's interesting to just to see. The reviews of it have been remarkably tepid. And I think it's because it just throws light on things that people don't want to talk about or don't want to think about. Right. Not so much because it's a poorly written book, because it absolutely is not. And I've been a fan of Taffy's work for a long time. It's kind of like the guys who walk out of Barbie because they don't like what they're seeing. It's the same idea.
Magda: Have you seen that yet?
Doug: No.
Magda: Oh, for Pete's sake.
Doug: I'm going to see it.
Magda: You can watch it now. You can watch it now on your big TV. In your own living room.
Doug: Roku says I can rent it for $25. So I'm going to hold on that.
Magda: Oh my goodness. Wow.
Doug: Yeah, exactly. I think they're overestimating the market for the moment.
Magda: Right.
Doug: But I'm going to watch it. I'm actually, I've seen so many clips of it on Instagram. I feel as though I've seen the damn movie already.